Ezekiel 38,39 - Who is Gog and Magog?

[jcr4runner]

From: "frank tamborello" <riklo@hotmail.com>
To: <jrogers@forerunner.com>
Subject: identity of gog

Hi Jay: thank you for your piece on Gog and Magog.

It may be several years old, but I recently ran across it on the Internet.

One point you made which I really appreciate was: although Russia (you said "Soviet Union" at the time, of course) may attack Israel, that's not what the Ezekiel 38-39 is a reference to."

I think that's a point worth reiterating here in 2006, as Iran apparently makes threats toward Israel. Although Iran might attack Israel, the reverse may also be true, and in either case, there is no evidence that that's what's being referred to in Ezekiel.

Many Christians however (myself in the past included) get so absorbed in prophecy that they take as a matter of course that this is what MUST happen----Russia and a coalition including Iran WILL attack Israel. When this type of thinking gets into top government officials, it has the power to become self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't believe that the very detailed descriptions of a mounted cavalry assault described in Ezekiel 38-39 can be transferred to, for example, a missile exchange involving the U.S., Iran, Israel and possibly other countries.

I was also fascinated to see the 2nd century Assyrian invasion described as having been a possible fulfillment of the Ezekiel prophecy. I hadn't heard of that. I have recently come across in my historical studies the exploits of Jenghiz Khan's grandson (or son?) Hulagu Khan, who decimated Baghdad. He attempted to invade Palestine with 20,000 troops and was repulsed by Egyptian Mamluks.

this was the Mongol's first defeat since Jenghiz Khan had begun his career. And as the Mongol empire at that time incorporated Persia and other nations described as "north of Israel", I wondered if that could also be interpreted as a fulfillment of Ezekiel. This happened in 1260 AD, which the number "1260" also has prophetic significance.

The only parts of my theory that leave big holes would be the participation of "Cush" and "Put" which cannot be verified, and the fact that Mamluks and not Jews constituted the defending force.

Nonetheless, it's just a theory and I don't want to spend too much time on it....as I mentioned earlier I've had the habit of getting too engrossed in prophecy.

But I did want to share this with you simply as a fascinating historical tidbit.

Myself, I appreciate that God, in the book of Jonah, decided to repent of destroying Nineveh, and that just made Jonah SO indignant!

Like Jonah, many of our modern Christians seem to be gleefully awaiting destruction of our other brothers and sisters on this planet, especially Muslims.

I don't like that attitude of Jonah.

I pray for peace for all nations. Let God be the one to decide how the end happens.



Anyway, thanks for your time!



Frank Tamborello

Los Angeles CA

[jcr4runner]

Is Russia Gog and Magog?

Here are several versions of the article mentioned above:

http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0 ... Magog.html

http://www.forerunner.com/predvestnik/X ... srael.html

http://www.forerunner.com/eschatology/X ... uttal.html

[LastDayRapturist]

Gog is first mentioned in I Chronicles 5:4. In this context, he is one of the sons of Joel, a descendant of Reuben. This is all we hear about anyone named Gog until Ezekiel 38.

Magog is mentioned in Genesis 10:2 as one of the grandsons of Noach (Noah). I Chr 10 is an exact copy of Gen 10:2 in English, I have no reason to assume the Hebrew is any different.

Again there is no mention of Magog in Scripture until Ezekiel 38.

In the original context, both Gog and Magog are men and appear to have no connection to one another.

The Magog of Ezekiel 38 is a country. The Gog of Ezekiel 38 is called the 'chief prince' of not the land of Magog, but Meschech and Tubal. (38:3) The interesting word here is not chief (Rosh), but prince. While in some other places, the word sar is used, in this context the word nasi is used. Its primary meaning is chief, prince, captain or leader.
It's used of Abraham (Gen 23:6). The secondary meaning though is highly interesting. "Vapors which ascend from the earth, from which the clouds are formed."

That isn't the only time the LORD uses the word ascend in the passage. He tells Gog that He will bring him 'up'. Ascend from where? The north parts or north quarter. (Ez 39:2) The word for north is tsaphon. This is yet another interesting word. The ancient people regarded the north as dark and obscure. (Like a bottomless pit perhaps?)

Rev 20:8 tells us that Satan is loosed from his prison (the bottomless pit, a notably dark and obscure place, often associated with death [Sheol]) and he comes out with one thing in mind:

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

Could John be trying to tell us something here? Personally, I think so. Ezekiel's Gog and Magog and John's Gog and Magog have certain similarities, but they aren't exactly the same.

Both accounts mention certain things though. Gog comes against the people of God; in Ezekiel, it's the land of Israel, in Revelation, it's the camp of the saints, the Holy City. He comes up and covers Israel like a cloud over the land; he surrounds the saints in Rev 20:8. The concepts are close to the same, the people of God are hemmed in. It's God who rescues them in both cases, in Ezekiel with fire and brimstone from heaven, in Revelation with fire from heaven (judgment day).

The differences? In the Ezekiel account, Israel survives and has to employ professionals to clean up the mess. In Revelation, no one survives. The resurrection and rapture occur for saints and the resurrection of the wicked unto judgment takes place. Peter tells us that the heavens melt with fervent fire and the earth and all its works are burned up. (2 Peter)

Gog is Satan himself. He is the 'chief prince' of the heathen (Magog). They have been surrounding us (the holy city, the camp of the saints) for years and we in our sheep-ness have been off eating poor food served up by self-effacing and self-serving shepherds. They're hirelings.

[jcr4runner]

As you know, I think the prophecy had immediate relevance to Israel and Judah.

There is an apocalyptic aspect that can be applied to the triumph of the Gospel over the nations and the last judgment, but I don't think it is meant to be a prophecy for what we see happening in the newspapers.

[LastDayRapturist]

As you know, I think the prophecy had immediate relevance to Israel and Judah.

There is an apocalyptic aspect that can be applied to the triumph of the Gospel over the nations and the last judgment, but I don't think it is meant to be a prophecy for what we see happening in the newspapers.

No, not at all. every time someone passes gas in the middle east, we get a rash of new insane '_________ is the antichrist, the rapture is any second, the tribulation is here' books and the sheep go out in droves and buy them.