Talk "heating up" again...

[clinevol98]

It's been awhile before these folks have had something of substance to talk about I guess, but the prophecy speculators are all over this Iran situation.

Now they're calling for the United States and Britain to attack Iran, and, so it fits in with their Ezekiel 38-39 scenario, they're already developing scenarios where Russia and Israel somehow become involved (even though that seems highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely).

Just curious to hear your thoughts on this Jay.

[jcr4runner]

I am not surprised beause 2007 is supposed to be the year of the rapture.

It was the premise of Whisenant's 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will be in 88 -- You see Israel reformed as a nation in 1948 and then he took that erroneous interpretation of Mat 24 with Israel as the fig tree. 40 years from 1948 was 1988. Of course, when that fell through, he rereleased the book as 89 Reasons Why the Rapture Will be in 89 ... You get the picture.

Then people decided that since Israel didn't recapture JERUSALEM until 1967, that the 40 year prophecy countdown ought to start from that date. I've always said that once we get beyond this year (or maybe 2008?) eschatology will begin a dramatic shift away from dispensationalism.

The good news is that the groundwork is already laid. All we need is some new ways to communicate the historically orthodox view. I am going to do a YOUTUBE Bible study on eschatology starting this month. Look for it soon.

In 1999, I wrote a book called 00 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 00 -- It had no words and no pages and it wasn't a bestseller.

[clinevol98]

I dunno if the dispensationals will be quiet after this year. There's a youtube video of Jack Van Impe making a case for 2012 for being the year of Jesus' return because the Mayan calendar ends that year. Yes, for whatever reason he believes that the Mayan calendar is an authority to go to for making guesses about the time of the Second Coming. But, as you say, they are beginning to run out of dates that they can pinpoint by adding a number of years to a past year, like 40 years to 1948 or 1967. Of course there aren't any "nice round number" years coming up like we had in 2000.

Many guesses have been made about the length of a Biblical generation. When the 1948+40 = 1988 scenario didn't work out, they moved on to a 1948+70 = 2018 scenario; at least I know Jack Van Impe has. As you pointed out, they have rethought their system and added 40 years to 1967, coming up with 2007. When that doesn't work out, they might add 70 years to 1967, coming up with 2037. Now, maybe after all of that, people might finally get tired of it.

However, maybe some are already moving away from it. I saw a John Hagee sermon today where he talked about a sequence of "490 year cycles" outlined in Daniel that will end supposedly in 2007. He had a huge chart behind the podium that showed this that he didn't talk about until the end of the sermon. Then, at the end of the sermon, he explained that chart. To my surprise, he said that he was "by no means saying that 2007 will be the year of the 'rapture;' no one knows that." But then he went into an equally crazy teaching, saying this was the year that God had "set aside" for financial breakthroughs and the "breaking down of barriers in your personal life." Needless to say, I had no idea what he was talking about or where anything like this would be found in the Bible.

Overall, I think most Christians like the dispensational system because it is exciting. They want to hear about things that are going to happen in the very near future or at the very least within their lifetimes. Personally, I found the system to be scary and mostly concerned about making money, misinterpreting key passages, and speculating about unrealistic scenarios to create fear in people, which is why I changed the way I looked at Bible prophecy last summer.

When someone comes along and tells them that these things happened thousands of years ago, it reminds them of a history lesson and they tune out. This is very unfortunate, because the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible show how it has held true throughout all time. All the falied prophecies from Hal Lindsey, Whisenant, Jack Van Impe, and others do the exact opposite; they make Christians lose all credibility.

[jcr4runner]

I dunno if the dispensationals will be quiet after this year. There's a youtube video of Jack Van Impe making a case for 2012 for being the year of Jesus' return because the Mayan calendar ends that year.

I guess when they run out of seemingly valid dates from the Bible, they have nowhere to go except the Mayan calendar. Of course, you can always crunch the numbers in the Bible to come up with any year you want. William Miller did that to come up with 1843 -- and then when he was wrong 1844.

There will be some who will always do this. But I am saying that after next year it is going to become more apparent that this is an unorthodox viewpoint.

Overall, I think most Christians like the dispensational system because it is exciting.

Exactly! "You mean, Jesus isn't coming back soon?! Aww! ... Nooo!" That was my reaction too. It is a let down. But then when you realize the implications of the postmillennial system it is even more exciting. Here's a couple of reasons why:

1. Fulfilled prophecy is an amazing evidence of the supernatural quality of scripture.

In reading Ken Gentry, David Chilton and a number of 19th century authors on the book of Revelation, I was amazed at how accurate John's prophecy is in describing the persecutions under Nero and the destruction of the Temple. There are many Old Testament prophecies about the history of Israel and the coming of Christ that were fulfilled. But when we look at Mat. 24 (and the other Mount Olivet passages) and the book of Daniel, we have a most amazing evidence that scripture was supernaturally inspired of God.

2. There are some prophecies that are being fulfilled in our day.

Namely, the conversion of the Gentile nations. Even 100 hundred years ago, many Christians would have been shocked to find almost 50 percent of Africa naming Jesus as their Savior. Some Latin American countries are almost 30 percent evangelical. Most former communist countries are open to the Gospel. Even Muslim nations are beginning to see a huge number of converts. God willing I'll be teaching a Bible class in the schools of Ukraine later this year.

3. Neither postmillennialism, amillennialism or historic premillennialism deny that Jesus MIGHT return in our lifetime.

It is very possible that the Great Commission could be fulfilled in our lieftimes. I personally think that, because of the language of Mat. 28, this involves more than just evangelism, but the whole reformation of societies and so I probably won't see the end of it all -- but I could be wrong. The orthodox view is to reject date setting and the view of the Kingdom of God as coming with the physical return of Jesus ONLY as heretical. The kingdom of God came on earth in about 30 A.D. and it has been conquering and converting God's enemies ever since. Only when the glory of God fills the whole earth will the last enemy -- death -- be defeated and then Jesus will return.

[clinevol98]

In reading Ken Gentry, David Chilton and a number of 19th century authors on the book of Revelation, I was amazed at how accurate John's prophecy is in describing the persecutions under Nero and the destruction of the Temple.

That's so true; unfortunately this seems to be lost on most Christians. I've heard others say "they (preterists) think that Nero was the antichrist." They think that the beast and the "antichrist" are the same thing. That has to be one of the most erroneous views that Christians have; that a single person, the "antichrist," will end up taking over a global government.

They even take the mention of the temple in Revelation 11 and project that into the future, saying that the temple must be rebuilt for all this to happen. Is it totally lost on them that maybe the temple was still there while the book we being written? [/quote]

[clinevol98]

Well, even if date-setting related to the founding of the modern-day State of Israel does pass soon, there will still be widespread incorrect views on the end times still around.

The rapture, the rebuilding of the temple, analysis of every Arab/Israeli peace treaty to see if it is the "7-year peace covenant" floated by the Antichrist, attempts to ID the antichrist, trying to determine when the "Russian invasion of Israel" will take place...it goes on and on and on...those teachings will still be around.

However, since most date-setters believe in the things I just described above, maybe they will rethink their entire "prophetic system" as Gary DeMar likes to say. After all, it's only been around for about 200 years, and 200 years isn't a long time at all in the overall history of Christianity.