Abigail Seidman Interview – Wiccan Rites

About 18 months ago, a reader named “Frankie” left a comment on one of my articles, Statements of a Practicing Witch? The article deals with abortion clinic owners and staff in Birmingham, Alabama and Melbourne, Florida who were involved in Wiccan and pagan practices – with one even going as far as to call abortion “a sacrament” and a “sacred act.”

“It’s true that many abortion centers, especially those that say ‘for women by women’ are tied to practices in the occult. One such clinic in Ohio had women staff/volunteers go on weekend trips to Traverse City, MI for what they would call experiences of ‘entering the womb of Mother Earth.’ Often Wiccan style jewelry/clothing could be seen by staff. This IS true and not made up stuff.”

Posted by Frankie on 06/01/2009 11:36 PM

Traverse City is about five hours over the border from Toledo, Ohio where Abigail Seidman’s mother worked at an abortion clinic. I didn’t make the connection at first when I began seeing Abigail’s testimony go viral on the Internet a few weeks ago. Abigail too says her mother participated in Wiccan rituals. We finally did a video interview with Abigail (see below) and she pointed out to me that “Frankie” must have been referring to the clinic where her mother worked.

I preface this interview with Frankie’s corroboration because some of the details below are so disturbing that it is going to provoke disbelief. Ironically, Abigail recently had a doubter on one of the atheist blogs write in response to her story a complaint that she had to single out “Tiamat” worshippers.


The Abortion Matrix: Defeating Child Sacrifice and the Culture of Death

Is there a connection between witchcraft, neo-paganism and the abortion industry?

This powerful presentation traces the biblical roots of child sacrifice and then delves into the social, political and cultural fall-out that this sin against God and crime against humanity has produced in our beleaguered society.

Conceived as a sequel and update to the 1988 classic, The Massacre of Innocence, the new title, The Abortion Matrix, is entirely fitting. It not only references abortion’s specific target – the sacred matrix where human beings are formed in the womb in the very image of God, but it also implies the existence of a conspiracy, a matrix of seemingly disparate forces that are driving this holocaust.

The occult activity surrounding the abortion industry is exposed with numerous examples. But are these just aberrations, bizarre yet anomalous examples of abortionists who just happen to have ties to modern day witchcraft? Or is this representative of something deeper, more sinister and even endemic to the entire abortion movement?

As the allusion to the film of over a decade ago suggests, the viewer may learn that things are not always as they appear to be. The Abortion Matrix reveals the reality of child-killing and strikes the proper moral chord to move hearts to fulfill the biblical responsibility to rescue those unjustly sentenced to death and to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves (Proverbs 24:11,12; 31:8,9).

Speakers include: George Grant, Peter Hammond, RC Sproul Jr., Paul Jehle, Lou Engle, Rusty Thomas, Flip Benham, Janet Porter and many more.

Read more

The irony here is that she had not to that point ever mentioned in any of her interviews the name of the Babylonian goddess of chaos that her mother worshipped. Who would know stuff like that off hand? “The lady doth protest too much, methinks!”

Rather than dwell on Tiamat worship, Abigail would prefer to talk about her conversion to Christ in June of 2010. She would prefer to emphasize her own experience with abortion and how she has been delivered from the depression that often comes with Post-Abortion Syndrome (PSA). She seems disappointed that the fascinating aspect of her story to many people is her experience with a circle of occultists who would perform blood rituals at the abortion clinic where her mother worked and sometimes have “mentrual extraction parties” at her home. The whole thesis of the recently produced DVD, The Abortion Matrix, is the relationship of Wicca and pagan religion to the abortion industry. Most of the questions we asked were based on other interviews in which she touched on this bizarre aspect of her upbringing.

The following is the text of our interview with Abigail Seidman, which she used as notes for the video interview. The video on YouTube is just the raw footage edited into seven parts. I then chose a few shorter clips for use in The Abortion Matrix.

– Jay Rogers
Director, The Forerunner

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Click play to connect to youtube

FR – You say you are sure the clinic that “Frankie” mentions is your mother’s clinic? How so?

AS – Frankie says the clinic is in Ohio, my mother’s clinic was in Ohio. The clinic staff frequently used the terminology “by women for women” when explaining the clinic and its mission to others (for instance, to say why a woman considering abortion should come to their clinic rather than to a clinic that was more of a doctor’s office atmosphere, or to a hospital). The idea stems from the mentality of lesbian-separatist style feminism – the idea that only women can truly understand women’s experiences and what is going through a woman’s mind, and thus health care, counseling, and that sort of thing should only be provided to women by other women, particularly in areas unique to women’s experience such as pregnancy.

FR – What do you think Frankie means by clinics that say “for women by women”? Also what is “entering the womb of Mother Earth”?

“By women for women” is essentially a marketing phrase in that it preys on the obviously vulnerable mindset of a woman in an unplanned pregnancy – it lures the woman into a false sense of security, that she will be understood, respected, and cared for more by other women than by men who cannot truly understand her viewpoint, when really the clinic’s sole purpose is to provide abortions, and thus their economic success depends on the sale of as many abortions as possible. Of course, in this case we are dealing with people whose purpose is to provide as many abortions as possible not only for economic success, but also for spiritual success, which can be a bigger incentive. Money on earth is temporary, but your spiritual capital lasts forever.

Frankie mentions Traverse City, Michgan. My family visited there frequently for recreation (skiing, hiking) and I believe that is where my mother may have first met clinic staffers who encouraged her to join the group. We traveled there with people from the clinic several times, although I did not take part in any occult rituals on those occasions, I was just there to ski with my dad and friends, my mother went off on her own with the other women. I tried to stay out of personal involvement in the occult stuff, which was easy because I was young and had not had an abortion yet so I was not welcome to attend any rituals (abortion was considered an “initiation rite”). I’m not sure what exactly the “opening/entering the womb of Mother Earth” refers to, since I never attended or participated in one of the ceremonies, but I heard the phrase mentioned by the clinic staff. It refers to some sort of ceremony, probably involving an intentional “sacred” abortion. I heard those spoken about, including intentional pregnancies to be used in the ceremony, but I never saw one.

FR – Can you describe your upbringing as a child whose mother worked for the abortion industry?

AS – It was strange. I was definitely kept isolated, especially when I was younger and she was just starting out in the radical feminist world. My mother always had a lot of strict rules about using the phone, going places with friends or staying at their houses, going to parties, that sort of thing. Dating was mostly out of the question, and to be honest I didn’t have a lot of opportunities because she kept me unattractive – she cut my hair, dressed me in shapeless, baggy clothing, forbade me to use makeup or hair products – it really damaged my development as a woman and I basically had to learn on my own how to be feminine.

I used to go to the library and sneak fashion magazines behind a copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves. I had my own copy of that at home, of course – it was my 14th birthday present. I remember reading the section on safe sex, which describes every possible sex act between two humans of any gender, and thinking – “I have to learn how to do all of this – and be good at it?” I had never even kissed a boy at that point and I was being exposed to this.

People at school kind of took advantage of that – they knew that I had access to things like sex information and condoms that they couldn’t get at home, so I became sort of the school “sexpert.” People would ask questions and I would either know the answers already, or be able to look them up. I kept condoms and safe-sex pamphlets in my bookbag at my mother’s insistence, and after a while people just knew to expect that and if I felt someone unzipping my backpack in the hall while I was talking to someone, I would just say, “Help yourself and zip it back up.” The condoms had stickers on the back advertising the abortion clinic – they were the same ones that were handed out at the clinic. One of my jobs there was to take the new shipments of condoms, separate them individually, and stick the pre-printed stickers on.

FR – What about your education? Were you influenced either toward a pro-life or pro-abortion point of view from teachers?

AS – School was pretty silent on the issue. Even in sex ed, abortion was just not mentioned. Birth control was, but the sex ed and health teachers acted like it was kind of foolproof. Use birth control, don’t get pregnant, end of story.

FR – Did you attend college? What was your spiritual experience there? Were you taught feminist ideology by any professors?

AS – I didn’t attend college long enough to be influenced by anyone really – I dropped out at the end of my first semester before exams. I was also – against advice – majoring in computer science, so my classes were primarily math and technical oriented, where there is little room for ideology. Obviously, my mother wanted me to major in Women’s Studies or a related field (Gender Studies, Gay Studies, etc). When I was unexpectedly pregnant in college, I was offered help by a Catholic counselor, including help to convert to Christianity, but I had been heavily indoctrinated to be distrustful of Christians at that point and I was afraid to follow her advice.

FR – What is your earliest church experience? When did you first become aware of the idea of God or His presence?

AS – My parents were actually very involved in church when I was born and when I was very young. My dad has always been a Christian, a member of the Episcopal Church, although his involvement has varied throughout the years. I was baptized as an infant and some of my earliest happy memories take place in church. My parents fell away from the church when I was about 5 years old, I think primarily due to my mother’s increasingly strong feminist views and her insistence on enforcing them on others.

When I was four, I was old enough to take part in the church Christmas play, and all of the boys were to be shepherds and the girls were to be angels, all surrounding the holy family together and singing songs of praise and worship. I was so excited to get to be a beautiful angel – and my mother threw a fit and said that separating boys’ and girls’ roles was sexist and that I should be “allowed” to be a shepherd – there were several heated phone conversations and eventually, on Christmas Eve, I was dressed in burlap sacks and made to stand among the boys, while I watched the girls in their sparkly white angel costumes, with fairy wings and tinsel halos and stuff, walking by. I just cried uncontrollably through the whole thing and was unable to sing, even though our song was O Come All Ye Faithful which is still my favorite Christmas carol. The next year, I did not participate in the pageant at all and I just sat with my parents. The next year, and all following years, we were no longer attending church.

I was aware of God and His presence from a very early age – I loved praying, I loved going to church, and I really felt God’s presence in the church – which greatly upset my parents. They were constantly telling me to “stop pretending”, “calm down”, etc. After my parents left the church when I was 5, I did not attend any church again (I was forbidden to, when I lived with my mother) until I was an adult and living with my father. He did not actually allow me to attend church with him right away after they separated and I moved in with him – after I begged, when I was searching for post-abortion healing, he reluctantly let me attend with him sometimes, but he found my crying to be embarrassing and he didn’t like that I took Communion even though I wasn’t confirmed (the Episcopal church had relaxed its rules and allowed any baptized Christian to take Communion in the intervening 15 years). So he had me speak to the minister directly and the minister told me that, having been an atheist, I had no business in a church and I was not welcome there anymore. I was reluctant to try Christianity again for a decade and even now I still face some rejection from people who seem to believe that if God had wanted me to be a good Christian, He would have had me born into and raised by a good Christian family.

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
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FR – You describe in detail the Wiccan/pagan paraphernalia and rituals in the abortion clinic you mother worked at. When did you first become aware of this?

AS – I wasn’t really aware of the Wiccan/pagan things that were going on until my mother got heavily involved in NOW in the Toledo area (including being its vice president in the early 90’s), and I started escorting outside the clinic in 1992. I was really only peripherally aware since I just tried to shut it out as much as possible. I remember seeing goddess statues and art around the clinic, and my mother bringing them into the house, but I didn’t see them as anything except art until a few years after they started to appear.

FR – Was this openly practiced?

AS – It was very openly practiced, nobody was shy about wearing pagan jewelry or clothing, and Christians were treated very scornfully. There was one woman who worked at the clinic and was a liberal Christian, I was friends with her daughter for a while in high school (we were the same age, and both in band at our respective schools), but after a few months she told her daughter to cut off contact with me and she may have stopped working for the clinic as well. She was disturbed by the occult things going on, and her perception of my family’s involvement with it (we did not attend church, and I was perpetually depressed and had a lot of health problems that caused her concern).

FR – Can you describe what happened in some of the rituals?

AS – I was never allowed to participate in a ritual since I did not have an abortion until I was 18 and ‘out of the loop’ (I am not sure if I would have done, if I had been invited), so I don’t know exactly what went on. I learned the general philosophy, but not the specifics of the rituals or ceremonies.

FR – Is abortion really seen as a form of child sacrifice to the goddess or as a “sacrament” among some Wiccans?

AS – It’s impossible to generalize – much like among Christians, Jews, or any other religious group, opinions will vary. Some Christians think abortion is morally acceptable – some even work in the abortion industry. Some Wiccans I’ve known are strongly pro-life, and most of the ones I’ve known or heard of felt that abortion was a tragic thing and should probably not be done except in extreme circumstances. Abortion is definitely celebrated as a sacrament among some goddess-worshippers, though, and I believe those people are particularly concentrated among the abortion industry in the modern world (since that is the venue that will provide them with what they need). Abortion-worship and child-sacrifice is well documented in some books and in the Bible, of course.

FR – You mention a “menstrual extraction party at our house once in 1992” what was that and what was the purpose?

AS – Menstrual extraction is, well, just what it says it is – it uses basic and readily-available equipment to remove the uterine contents by suction immediately before menses are due. This may or may not include a very early pregnancy. I have heard of female athletes, dancers, and actresses having it done regularly in order to not be inconvenienced by a week of bleeding/cramping (but obviously, they’re having it done in a doctor’s office under sterile conditions, with proper anesthesia and monitoring, etc). Technically if it was done after a missed/late period, it would be a suction abortion. Due to the crude nature of the technique (this is now excluding d&c procedures in a medical setting and referring only to the “underground” method), it should be done on the first day of the woman’s expected period, but obviously some women would be having it done later in an illegal abortion situation.

Since there is no curettage being performed as there would be in a typical suction abortion, the chances of missing the pregnancy altogether, or retaining tissue, would be much higher. The technique involves thin flexible tubing which would be inserted into the woman’s cervix after minor dilation, then suction would be applied with a large syringe or low-powered vacuum pump to remove the blood and tissue from her uterus into a receptacle. The equipment would be sterilized by boiling before and after each use, and these are all things that would be reasonably readily available even without access to medical suppliers.

At various times from the 60’s onward I have heard of women gathering in groups to teach/learn this technique or to practice illegal abortion techniques in general (e.g., the “Redstockings” of the early abortion-advocacy movement), and in the 80’s and early 90’s there was an increased interest due to the rise of social conservatism/pro-life with the Reagan and Bush administrations. My mother’s party was held during the ’92 election season when there was a lot of paranoia about Roe v. Wade being overturned or severely crippled if Bush won re-election, especially if there was also a Republican majority elected to one or both houses of Congress. About a dozen women who either worked at the abortion clinic or were involved in the local NOW group (my mother was the chapter VP at the time) met at our house one evening, bringing supplies (mayonnaise jars, aquarium tubing, plastic sheets, towels, etc). My father and I were home when the party began but left partway through after an argument about whether or not I would be required to participate (I was 13 years old at the time).

My mother had been pressuring me about it for weeks, insisting that not only should I have it done at the party (because it would be “useful” to “practice” on a young teenager’s body and because it would make her a “cool mom”) but that I should have it done (by her) every month so I wouldn’t have to be inconvenienced by periods, and so that she would never have to worry about me being pregnant (this despite the fact that I was on the birth control pill, had ready access to condoms, and was abstinent for nearly all of my teen years anyway). I stayed out of the living room after helping set up the plastic sheets and serving drinks and hors d’oeuvres – Dad and I both stayed in the kitchen, keeping the stockpots of water boiling to sterilize equipment, and socializing with anyone who happened to be in there, until the argument, when Dad decided it was time to escape with me for dinner and movies – we came back well after midnight, when everyone was gone and mom was in bed.

I remember the jars of blood starting to stack up in the hall, and a few times when I walked past the doorway I saw naked women on the floor, or couch, either taking their turn at having the procedure done on them or doing it on others, and using some of the blood to draw symbols on each others’ breasts and bellies. (That was the biggest issue for me, I didn’t want to be naked in front of a bunch of other people, even if we were all female, and I was also grossed out by blood.) It was a ritual sort of atmosphere in addition to the party theme, with goddess music playing on the stereo and the clinic owner sort of directing things. She also took the jars of blood with her when she left.

The next day my dad and I folded up the plastic and bloody towels and bagged them, then drove them to a unlocked dumpster behind an office building and threw them in.

FR – What was your reaction to this at the time?

AS – I was young at the time and only peripherally involved, so I wasn’t aware of anything else until I became older and researched the topic a bit more.

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
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FR – In other interviews you give a few examples of goddess worship. You say Kali and Hecate were worshipped. Who are they specifically?

AS – Kali is a Hindu goddess of death, frequently depicted with a necklace of skulls. Her worship included ritual murder and human sacrifice until it was suppressed by the British Empire. Hecate is an ancient Greek goddess, the daughter of Persephone and Hades. She has a long history in European folklore as a goddess of witchcraft and a protectress of witches. Since her father is Death personified, she has a strong association with death. She is also the goddess of crossroads – in other words, of “choices.”

FR – Were there other “goddesses” mentioned by name? Who are they?

AS – The goddesses I heard mentioned by name most commonly were Ashteroth and Tiamat, both ancient Near Eastern goddesses. Ashteroth was associated in the Bible and elsewhere in history with Moloch and the practice of ritual child sacrifice. Tiamat, or the “great dragon,” was said to be the Goddess’s truest and most ancient form. She figures heavily in the Babylonian creation myth, as the masculine sun/warrior deity Marduk murders her and uses her blood and body parts to create the Earth and its inhabitants. The abortion-worshippers said that by “stealing” blood from men by sacrificing their children, they could “feed” Tiamat (as Mother Earth) and help her to regain her power so that she could destroy the male-dominated world and bring about a new spiritual world ruled by women. Diana (a.k.a. Artemis), of course, is the most commonly-worshipped goddess among modern Wiccans and neo-pagans, and she was also mentioned frequently, particularly in her role as virgin huntress – a woman who was independent of men, and who had and used the power to kill.

FR – You say that you believe that the occult believers are the “core” of the pro-abortion movement. Is there evidence of this?

AS – I say that they are the “core” because they are the ones who will stop at nothing to abort their children and any others they can get their hands on. They are the ones who are truly pro-abortion. Most pro-choice people are actually pro-choice, not pro-abortion, and they don’t fully understand the moral issues involved, or they have a slightly warped moral sense. If abortion were outlawed, they might bemoan it, but they would obey the laws. The core – the abortion-worshippers – would not obey the law, just as they did not obey the law prior to Roe v Wade. There were radical feminist groups like the Redstockings, like Margaret Sanger’s Birth Control League, I’m sure countless other unknown local groups, who worked to teach each other abortion techniques and practice abortions on themselves and other women, for hundreds of years.

Abortion would not have been condemned by the Hippocratic Oath, by the Church Fathers, by the Reformers, by countless moral authorities throughout the ages, if it was not being actively practiced in secret all that time. Those techniques, herbs, potions, and so forth were being passed down as folklore – as “witchcraft.” The Biblical injunction to not suffer a witch to live is specifically aimed at the village abortionists. Malleus Maleficarum focuses on abortion as a sign of witchcraft. The hereditary tradition of village witches and wise-women throughout the Middle Ages up to the present day was always centered around potions and remedies to prevent conception or, if that failed, to cause abortion – because, let’s face it, humans have always been morally deficient beings. We fornicate, we commit adultery, and then we try to cover up the evidence of our sin, just as Adam and Eve covered their nakedness with fig leaves. I think it’s not too far of a stretch to associate the cause of Adam and Eve’s fall, with the cause of the other sins and ills of the world, including the present-day tragedy of legal abortion.

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
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FR – How did you become a Christian?

AS – I became a Christian for a number of reasons. The short version is, that I, after years of trying to handle my problems for myself and always falling short, turned to God to sort them out for me – and He’s done a fantastic job so far. I had spent my early years as a Christian and really enjoyed it, only to be told by my mother a few years later that we were done with that and that it was no use looking back. I won’t say that all Christians have always been perfectly wonderful to me, either. It’s easy, when you haven’t faced a particular hardship or stumbling block in your life, to judge and condemn others whose lives and pasts you don’t understand.

At age 30 I came to realize that I had been abused, judged, and ill-treated by Christians, Jews, pagans, and atheists alike – so it was hardly fair to judge any of those belief systems solely on the merits of its believers. I was confronted with a lot of personal tragedies in 2008 and 2009 – loss of fertility, the total silence of both of my parents, a brief separation from my husband, financial problems, and my sons’ diagnoses with autism and other developmental disabilities. It was far, far too much to handle, and I was coming to an increasing realization that rationalistic atheism just wasn’t cutting it.

To be blunt – the value system I was trying to follow, the same one that noted atheists like Richard Dawkins and Peter Singer follow, said that my children should be killed. Not just the ones I had already killed through abortion and birth control, but the two living, breathing, walking-around boys I loved to hold and talk to and play with every day. My loss of fertility was probably for the best, too – for the best of humanity, regardless of how I might feel about it. My genes were defective and had no right to propagate themselves, and my children were “human waste” who, for their own good and everyone else’s, ought to be euthanized. Obviously, this is illegal – and I didn’t want to get rid of them, even if I could have legally dropped them off at the nearest Defective Child Euthanasia Centre – so what was I to do? Worst of all, I was unable to forgive myself or others for past wrongs. There was just no framework for that sort of thing. I was also looking for post-abortion healing, as I began to realize that my psychological problems lined up exactly with post-abortion syndrome. The post-abortion websites were all adamant that healing begins with Jesus, and you must remember that I had been thoroughly brainwashed into believing that Jesus could never be an option for me.

I began reading websites on the subject of conversion from atheism to Christianity – most notably Jennifer Fulwiler’s Conversion Diary Blog – in late 2009. I bought a Bible in early 2010 and started searching for a church that might accept me. Episcopal churches seemed to be out, as the church had changed drastically since I was a small child, and now endorsed a lot of things that I didn’t approve of, such as homosexuality. I broadened my search and found a friendly-seeming evangelical church nearby. I attended one of their services for the first time on the first day of June 2010. The experience was so intense that I, rather unexpectedly, had to run out to the lobby to grab napkins from the coffee table to soak up my tears. I stayed there for a few months but ultimately left due to their opposition to my pro-life work. I am now preparing to be received into the Catholic Church.

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Click play to connect to youtube

This may be an anomaly. I have heard more stories of people who became Christians first and then gradually reconciled themselves to a pro-life view. However, there are a significant number of pro-lifers – and this number is growing – who are not Christian, who are not even religious. My husband is one of them. Certainly, there are enough arguments for the pro-life position from a scientific, medical, and ethical point of view that we don’t need to bring religious arguments into it in order to convince someone. To me, this conversion is more important than the religious one, because it affects more people. With a stroke of a pen, thousands or millions of lives can be saved by tightening restrictions on abortion or outlawing it altogether. The same cannot be said for religious belief – even if outward conformity to a particular religion were legislated, it would not change hearts and minds. That has to be an internal, personal thing. I still feel a bit awkward speaking about my religious conversion and experiences, whereas I can speak very openly about the importance of respect for vulnerable human life.

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Click play to connect to youtube

FR – Some of the clinic workers must have been attached to other occult groups, such as covens or pagan circles. What are some of the names of these people and can you tell some of the names and describe the groups that they were a part of?

AS – As far as I knew, the clinic and its core of staffers was the circle. There was a Zen buddhist temple in Ann Arbor, MI that my mother and a few other clinic workers were affiliated with, but as for the pagan, Wiccan types, I don’t know of any affiliations other than the clinic itself and its practices. I only went to the Buddhist temple once, but I remember being kind of nervous around the woman who was the “priestess.”

FR – This is an abortion clinic in _____?

AS – The clinic I am describing is in Toledo, Ohio.

FR – Is it still going on today at this clinic?

AS – I can’t say. My contact with the clinic ceased in 1996 when my parents separated and I moved away with my dad. My testimony is all from 1991-1996. I have been in recent contact with a pro-life leader in Toledo and she reports that the same people are still in leadership positions at the clinic, and that the clinic owner and doctor were visibly upset in the days after the initial article in WorldNetDaily about me was published.

Video: Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Abigail Seidman Interview - Wiccan Rites
Click play to connect to youtube

FR – Do you think someone would make this stuff up? And what would you say up front to skeptics or even Christians who doubt your claim that Wiccan/pagan practices are the spiritual “core” of the abortion industry?

AS – Someone could make anything up, but I don’t see why someone would, when there are perfectly legitimate arguments against abortion from a scientific and ethical perspective, plus moral arguments to be made from religion. This does not necessarily even help the pro-life movement and I have taken some flak from other pro-lifers for bringing it up, because they feel it would hurt the movement. Pro-choicers have nothing to gain from making it up, either, because it makes them look bad, and could easily turn into a real “witch hunt” or set off an already unbalanced person into taking it upon him or herself to attack the “witches.” I suppose it gets me attention, but it’s not all positive by any means and it’s quite stressful to have to bring up and talk about memories that I would rather bury. I had a much nicer time of things before I came out with this information, both in the pro-life movement and in life in general.

There’s also the fact that, to some people, it makes me sound like a crazy person. Unfortunately, the pro-life movement in particular contains a number of well-meaning and devout people who come from very Christian homes and environments, some of them have never known someone who wasn’t at least nominally Christian, and it sounds absurd to them that there are literally people practicing other religions. To those people, I would point out the absurdities and atrocities committed in the name of various religions worldwide. It’s very comfortable for us here in the United States, where we have a Constitution that guarantees religious freedom, and a Christian majority. In other places, young girls are suffering genital mutilation, people are whipped for having premarital sex, people are stoned to death for being suspected homosexuals, and so on. Obviously, some people are going to think I am crazy or lying or both. Some people are going to think YOU are, for making this film. I can’t let that stop me. I’ve actually been to a few different types of counseling, and never been diagnosed with any mental illness other than minor anxiety and sleep problems. Most of those have gone away since my conversion to Christianity.

I would encourage skeptics to examine all the evidence before drawing their conclusions. There is a disturbing tendency in modern culture for people to choose an ideology and then make their experiences conform to it, by shutting out, ignoring, or actively attacking anything that does not fit with their preconceived ideas. I have seen it among atheists when I was one – many of them outright refuse to even look at information about creationism, for instance, because they KNOW it is made up and wrong so there is no point. Now I see the same thing among Christians – many of them refuse to even look at information from a source that is not “Christian.”

I made my decision to follow God after years – really, a lifetime – of study and consideration, including reading about every religion I could find information on. In other words – whatever the topic, be it evolution, abortion, homosexuality, or even cooking – I would encourage everyone to learn as much as they can about an issue before making up their minds – and to be open to change if something convincing comes along. My husband is a pro-life agnostic Jew who has dabbled in new-age activity in the past. He was skeptical of my claims about the abortion industry and witchcraft, but he was open-minded. He said that my statements made sense, but he still held a small amount of doubt – maybe my mother’s group was unique and ALL the other abortionists were just misguided normal people. Then he watched part of your video on YouTube with me. After watching it (with me occasionally pausing to comment, “I’ve seen that statue, book, heard that song, etc.”) He was convinced that the connection is real and is at least somewhat widespread. He was also deeply disturbed.

FR – What you’ve shared, even though it is the whole thesis of The Abortion Matrix presentation, is “far-fetched” to some Christians. Is there a specific “smoking gun” in your experience that proves to skeptics you aren’t just looking for attention.

AS – I wish there was. If I could get my mother to talk, that would be helpful. For obvious reasons, these people want to keep this as secretive as possible. This is why I can’t give a ton of detail, because I was as uninvolved as possible during my teen years and then stayed well away from it all afterward. Initially, I found it to be interesting, but that quickly faded as I saw the problems it caused. My mother’s behavior changed, my parents’ relationship worsened and eventually fell apart, and I began to mourn my loss of the future I had planned for myself – a fairly normal future including marriage – to a man – and children, and – although I hadn’t ever dared to mention it – being a housewife and stay-at-home mom. I resented this strange world that I was being forced into – a seemingly upside-down world where a wedding would be the worst day of a woman’s life, children were a curse, and, although men were hated, the greatest thing a woman could aspire to would be to be just like one.

Abigail Seidman
(434) 227-6980 (voicemail)
Follow Abigail on Facebook (Abigail Seidman Pro-Life Advocate) and Twitter (@abigailseidman)

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